The Living Centrifuge

- i find that in most of the cases, I've heard people use the word untalented about someone, is usually just jealousy of the other's success, in my honest opinion

oh no. I have to disagree with you there. jealousy is a big one yes, and we're sort of weird around it, it's somehow the most taboo of the emotions, however, jealousy accounted for, one can still feel someone like britney spears is talentless independently of her success. There is the feeling that one hopes one's society will not make a habit of elevating the mediocre. To me, Britney Spears, The Spice Girls, 98 Degrees and so on are undesireable because of their mediocrity, and they point to a larger societal problem. Now, don't get me wrong, I battle with the desire for fame and success, especially as an artist, but I think the larger issue for me is that I am disappointed with the society in which I live, in its unremitting pursuit of mediocrity. I know I thrive when those around me are excellent, and so I'm disheartened by the comfort that we seek in keeping ourselves talentless, and in our penchant for ignoring/tearing down the unbelievably talented, and tolerating with saintly patience the boring and "luke-warm", half-digested crap that popular music and its proponents represent.
but that's sort of what i mean... your personal opinion is preventing you from looking at it without bias

-but that's sort of what i mean... your personal opinion is preventing you from looking at it without bias

I am a westerner. I value my personal opinion, and in the context of society, don't think it's worth relinquishing. However, to address what you just said, you yourself admit that objectively, BS (how fitting that those are her initials) is not a great singer or dancer or intellect. So, why should she be a role-model? Objectively, she's mediocre. That has nothing to do with my opinion of her. Her vocal range is limited, her dancing is limited, and she decided that higher education was a bad idea. Why should this person be an idol for hundreds of thousands of people? it's not my opinion of britney to which I am attached, it's my opinion of our society that glorifies her over people with greater measurable skills. to quote the interminable actor's mantra: I could do THAT. Or more importantly, since this is not about me, ANYONE could do what she does.

- but that's the thing: the thing that makes her "special" is that not anyone could do that... as a side note: I'm not really trying to defend Britney, I'm just using her as an obvious example... it's the illusion that it's easy I think that makes me dislike the term untalented

wait.....I don't understand what you just said...oh, that it was difficult for her to get where she is, and therefore some talent must be involved?

-yes

except that she just looked hot and was willing to turn herself into a "schoolgirl whore" and take advantage of some of our societal fantasies of fucking youths. as someone in performance I have to reiterate that the adage is true about being in the right time and place. A huge chunk of becoming famous is actually luck. talent often has little to do with it.

-yes... I dunno... I still don't like the term untalented

because it smacks of the subjective?

to be honest, I think this mostly arose due to one of my co-workers uses that word to describe any musician/artist/designer whom she personally doesn't like

ah. this is problematic. I agree we need to use the term judiciously. for me talent refers to any uncommon skill or aptitude that an individual possesses, by which they are set apart (above - although I realise people don't like hierarchy) his or her peers in the specific field of pursuit.